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when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:05 am
by tatmanfish
I must say all these new front motor chassis seem to be heading in the wrong direction. It adds weight up front and it technically put the motor where it would be in a real car, but it does nothing to balance the chassis like a real car.

The battery is still the heaviest thing on the chassis and weighs more than the motor and all other electronics combined. Ive seen homemade front battery conversions, but when is one of the companies realize that this is the best way to get an rc chassis to resemble the balance of a real car?

Getting the battery as close to the front wheels as possible put the majority of the weight up front while the rest of the electronics make up a small portion in the middle and rear. You know....like a real car. Its taken awhile to go from a pan style chassis to the more current weight balanced chassis like tamiya and yokomo among others are producing. Now the trend is front motor, but its still leaving the heavy part (the battery) towards the middle-rear of the chassis.

I cant be the only one who realizes this. I dont have some major mathematics or engineering degree. I dont have a degree in physics either.

If I had the tools or know how, I would attempt to make a main chassis plate that just reverses the current setup of most popular drift cars. Tire choice would likely change to ones with more grip without the mass amount of weight being over the back tires, but with the options out there now it would he fairly easy.

Seeing the rwd prototype in another thread makes me wonder why this hasnt been tried. It would allow for higher cs ratios and kaybe straight up rwd without tons of diy mods.

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:41 pm
by awdracer
everyone has a different weight and dimension for a battery. at least motors are dimensionally identical with similar weights so its easier to design for a chassis to be front heavy. another problem i see with a front battery setup would be body mounting in that the length would foul most fenders and hood lines. the main game for manufacturers is to have a 50/50 weight ratio with just a front bias for a desired handling effect. it just so happens the most dense part of an rc is the motor itself. so why not move it closer to the front right?

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:33 am
by Davis
Talking about "real" weight distribution a chassis should weigh around 120kg in scale 1/10 to start with. With a proper motor the tires should also be smoking then, while drifting. :mrgreen:

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:30 am
by tatmanfish
Brilliant response. I didnt say scale weight. I said more realistic weight balance.

Seems it would be possiblt to get the battery weight upfront and centered as possible while still having a functioning steering rack wouldve been done. Hell, its possible to have front motor and a battery tucked behind the steering rack. May mean longer wires, but youd have closer to real life weight distribution.

Not every rc accomodates every battery. Having a specific dimension for usable battery packs isnt uncommon. My vdf doesnt fit every 2s pack out there. Its part of the hobby. Mounting bodies wouldnt be a problem because even on its side, the battery is shorter than mast ever cars shock towers.

The motor may be dense, but it it far from the weight of the battery. Getting the battery or both motor and battery further up front would just make it handle more realistic and allow higher cs or even rwd.

Many chassis started out as touring cars that were modified for drifting. Now that companies are designing them specifically for drifting with out a touring car platform, they have the opportunity to utilize those physics.

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:38 am
by Teles
Rc drifting is more about time behind the radio ... more than a handcraft , exclusive or high-end chassis , keep practice, practice, practice ;)

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:12 pm
by cubadragon
I don't know if you tried the mst fs but it has more than one battery placement. And if you think the battery weighs more than the motor esc and the front bulkhead that holds all. My FS is more front heavy and if you see the rwd videos for rc front bias is the choice to get this.

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:13 pm
by Stalwart
Most manufacturers still build "drift chassis" from touring part leftovers. DIY is the way to go, and custom solutions are a big part of drifting culture, both 1:1 and 1:10.

Image

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:16 am
by RE-Xtreme
Are you talking about a car 1:10 scale car that weighs 100kg and drives at 10Km/h...

Thats real.

RC will never be anywhere close to a real car.
At the moment. we have a 1.5 kg (150kg) car that does 100kph (1000km/h)


I tried a 1/10 RC drift car with a camera and control via a playstation controller.
It was an interesting experience.
Kind of a sim.
But then why not go for Video game. the feeling was similar but with real consequences.

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:59 pm
by tatmanfish
Im not talking scale anything.

Im just talking about the balance of the chassis and positioning of weight to get more realistic control for high cs or rwd. They will never perform to scale. This is blatantly obvious.

The weight being more over the front (which is the whole reason we are seeing front motor chassis popping up) makes a pretty significant difference. It the reason guys like stalwart have done custom mods.

Acting like its not a possibility or it doesnt serve a measurable function is silly. Referencing scale does nothing as we all understand the fact that weight, speed, suspension, etc arent accurate. That doesnt mean we cant try to achieve the same feel.

If I had better tools or diy skills id be trying to do some of these mods guys are doing, but I dont. But with the money the companies drop into designing these chassis, youd think that they would see these mods and attempt to use some of the more practical ones.

Active hobby designed the suspension link system when no one else was running a system like that.

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:33 am
by cubadragon
The thing is companies also have guys that test different ideas and see what works. You really think they won't make cause they choose not to? Because if this idea made sense to them they would. In the end companies are about making money and if this made them money they would. Also if this idea was popular you would see it all over Japan. There are guys making full rwd from scratch and not one of them is using front battery mount. Your idea isn't what most people want. To me it doesn't make sense with having a lipo in the front. If you get one head on hit to the wall and the battery could catch on fire. I do see why you would like to see it happen maybe I'm wrong and its just not yet trending.

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:29 am
by marshun
drifting is such a small part of rc. and cubadragon already said it. its about money.

stalwart is also right. diy is the way to go.

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:55 pm
by Automatix
marshun wrote:drifting is such a small part of rc. and cubadragon already said it. its about money.

stalwart is also right. diy is the way to go.


Wouldn't say so. Drift is generating already 70% of Yokomos turnover.

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:49 am
by A1rwav3
But Yokomo only owns a small part of all the rc chassis market...

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:24 am
by marshun
Automatix wrote:
marshun wrote:drifting is such a small part of rc. and cubadragon already said it. its about money.

stalwart is also right. diy is the way to go.


Wouldn't say so. Drift is generating already 70% of Yokomos turnover.


well you must be seeing "rc" as only cars. rc is everything. motorcycles, helicopters, planes, etc etc etc

drifting is tiny. its a niche market.

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:52 am
by FunkRenegade
If they could have, they would have. Scaling down 1:1 geometry and design do not translate well in 1:10 scale. If you factor in scale speed, scale power to weight ratio, scale tire grip, it just won't work. RC drifting is simulated drifting. Even the 1:10 RWD does not fully capture the movements of 1:1 drift. Wrap up FR-D was designed to mimic 1:1 FR car layout, but if you look at fully tuned FR-d's they dont resemble anything like the 1:1 counterpart. 1:10 rc cars have not even come remotely close to 1:1 suspension.

People seem to try being "ultra scale", but it's a losing battle to begin with. Correct wheel size, tire size, completely proportional bodies will never be standardized. There are model trains and static model kits for that. Enjoy it for what it is.

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:11 am
by awdracer
this is the closest to looking 1/1 ive seen in a while
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBNBm56NCkM

Re: when will we get a real chassis?

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:38 pm
by tatmanfish
Arguing scale anything is stupid imo. We all know its not physically possible to even come close to replicating as much. All im saying is that balancing the chassis closer to the weight distribution of a 1:1 car would make the handling more realistic. No where in that statement am I suggesting replicating anything to scale. Just simply moving components around so that the weight is closer to being over the front axles.

So tired of anything rc related being boiled down to the impossibility of replicating scale.....no crap?!?! You think!?!?

Doesnt mean we cant modify current standards to perform more realistic despite all the blatantly obvious constraints of true to scale setups.

Tell me about how scale wont work again. Its way to hard for my feeble mind to understand why you cant just make an exact scale weight, speed, suspension replica of a real car....thats sarcasm just incase it was lost by being over the top.