Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby Davis » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:57 pm

This picture is obviously made for racers. Turn it around and you have a drift setup :D ... This method is also true if you have the links turned the other way around. If the lines meet on the other side of the chassis, like in your video, the wheel "rotates" outwards, which means less camber, instead of more camber on compression ;) ... Only for an exactly parallel spuspension arm and camber link this would mean no change of camber at all, since the wheel is turning around a point infinite away.
Last edited by Davis on Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby Calzone » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:00 pm

I understand your question, and there are 2 possible answers for it i think:
1. In case of no intersection towards the middle of the car, you would have to draw the lines the opposite way, that way they would intersect, but behaviour would be different.
2. I think a suspension setup where the arms are never intersecting is not behaviour that would be seen on real (passenger) cars.

The only think i know for sure is that with the arms not intersecting towards the middle of the car, you get the opposite of normal behaviour, which is in this case the positive camber under compression.
When watching your video, you see that happen :) But looking at the lower arm and the steepness of your upper arm, i would say the rollcenter would be in your case pretty low ;)

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby dencio1976 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:24 pm

Calzone wrote:I understand your question, and there are 2 possible answers for it i think:
1. In case of no intersection towards the middle of the car, you would have to draw the lines the opposite way, that way they would intersect, but behaviour would be different.
2. I think a suspension setup where the arms are never intersecting is not behaviour that would be seen on real (passenger) cars.

The only think i know for sure is that with the arms not intersecting towards the middle of the car, you get the opposite of normal behaviour, which is in this case the positive camber under compression.
When watching your video, you see that happen :) But looking at the lower arm and the steepness of your upper arm, i would say the rollcenter would be in your case pretty low ;)



ok. thanks! ^_^

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby valve_timing » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:20 pm

So this would be good for the ta05

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby DWright » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:24 am

Why would you but this just for compression active camber when you can do it with standard setup?
And for the stability - it's just a matter of suspension setup and speed of counter-steering (reactions).

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby Calzone » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:11 am

because without this linkage you won't get the same effect on both sides under roll, only when the car is evenly compressed at both sides. Under roll one side will compress downwards and the other side upwards, but because of the c-hubs not being connected to each other the camber on both sides will differ.

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby DWright » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:00 am

For more stability you could try active pistons first.

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby FunkRenegade » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:23 pm

In racing, where you immediately notice handling effects, setting upper arm is used more for 'camber gain', than roll center. Altho inner camber link height does have an effect on roll center, it's not as dramatic as the camber gain effect. Lower inner hinge pin height has more effect on roll center, and it has no effect on camber gain. Setting upper arm in an extreme slope, will have a bigger effect on roll center, but that's beyond my "acceptable" range.
dencio1976 wrote:my post was rather specific to "know what you are doing.." and same effect as only mentioned by davis. just saying it's possible. when you questioned it, it seemed you were opposed to the idea of it. or probably just didnt understand what i was getting at. :mrgreen:

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby FunkRenegade » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:26 pm

This is useless information as far as this discussion goes. You grabbed something out of a book. Great. You dont offer anything on how the roll center geometry is adjusted and how it is affecting the suspension.
Calzone wrote:The height of the rollcenter can be found by drawing lines through your suspensionarms, then connecting the tire contactpoint in the middle of the tire to the point in which the suspensionarms come together, as seen in the picture below. It's not the best pic, but it's the only one i could find. The point Mh on the vertical line through the center of the car is the rollcenter, the point Ph, where the suspension arms come together, is the point around which the wheel will turn with every suspension movement :)
Image

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby tamiya » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:42 pm

tamiya wrote:...Active Rear Camber was one such fad which popped up late 2011
and only Active put it into production not any major manufacturer...


i now hear GPX also has a Active Camber kit... i assume that's by our friends Kazama

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby Davis » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:50 pm

Some findings after todays short outdoor session:
Even though the tires are shaped pretty conical by now, the chassis still has tons of grip on the rear axle. Actually too much, since even with 2.0CS I hardly have to countersteer. (I do of course, but it doesn´t feel that extreme and consistent as without the kit.) - I also found, that when running on a bumpy surface like pavement, the drifts become quite unpredictable since the camber changes on every seam the chassis runs over. ^^ ... Back home, I noticed that one of the supports for the rockerarms has a lot of play by now. Let´s see, how I can fix that?

... conclusion so far. The suspension links require a completely new setup, since they provide a lot of grip to the rear axle. Running on a smooth carpet track with it, would be probably the best choice, since tire wear and bumps will effect the handling of the chassis over time otherwise. - Or maybe I should try to run them in front? :Think: :mrgreen:

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby Calzone » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:28 am

FunkRenegade wrote:This is useless information as far as this discussion goes. You grabbed something out of a book. Great. You dont offer anything on how the roll center geometry is adjusted and how it is affecting the suspension.

Hello mister "know all", we meet again. I think most people who are serious about their suspension setup will know what roll center geometry is and i think with some common sense it is easy to figure out from the information given by me how you can change that geometry.

I indeed forgot to tell how it affects the suspension, excuse me for being human, but you have no reason to tell me that the given information is "Useless information as far as this discussion goes". I fucking study Automotive Engineering, i know what i'm talking about sir.

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby FunkRenegade » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:27 pm

Never claimed to know it all. But what i do know, I know it well. As far as I can tell, you've been wrong more often than not. :lol:
Calzone wrote:
FunkRenegade wrote:This is useless information as far as this discussion goes. You grabbed something out of a book. Great. You dont offer anything on how the roll center geometry is adjusted and how it is affecting the suspension.

Hello mister "know all", we meet again. I think most people who are serious about their suspension setup will know what roll center geometry is and i think with some common sense it is easy to figure out from the information given by me how you can change that geometry.

I indeed forgot to tell how it affects the suspension, excuse me for being human, but you have no reason to tell me that the given information is "Useless information as far as this discussion goes". I fucking study Automotive Engineering, i know what i'm talking about sir.

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby Calzone » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:16 am

FunkRenegade wrote:Never claimed to know it all. But what i do know, I know it well. As far as I can tell, you've been wrong more often than not. :lol:

I've never been wrong. But believe what you want, i've got nothing to prove too you ;)

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby Automatix » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:36 pm

Davis wrote:Some findings after todays short outdoor session:
Even though the tires are shaped pretty conical by now, the chassis still has tons of grip on the rear axle. Actually too much, since even with 2.0CS I hardly have to countersteer. (I do of course, but it doesn´t feel that extreme and consistent as without the kit.) - I also found, that when running on a bumpy surface like pavement, the drifts become quite unpredictable since the camber changes on every seam the chassis runs over. ^^ ... Back home, I noticed that one of the supports for the rockerarms has a lot of play by now. Let´s see, how I can fix that?

... conclusion so far. The suspension links require a completely new setup, since they provide a lot of grip to the rear axle. Running on a smooth carpet track with it, would be probably the best choice, since tire wear and bumps will effect the handling of the chassis over time otherwise. - Or maybe I should try to run them in front? :Think: :mrgreen:


Same I noticed ;) ...but can't judge bumpy tracks, as I stopped drift on them :lol: :oops:

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby multi-bash » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:09 am

bump for more driving impression updates.. how is tire wear on this? I drive mostly polished concrete, medium size track with 1 long sweeper -- seems like it might be good there?
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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby Davis » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:56 pm

I didn´t have much more driving experience after the last report. Since I sold the kit again.

Conclusion stays the same, with the kit installed it is possible to throw the car into the corners as if there is no tomorrow and the grip will just build up the harder you throw it in. When running on hard surfaces, with alot of tire wear and high camber settings, the handling changes quite drastically over the life cycle of the tires. Running almost 0° in the rear might fix that issue though.

So performance wise it has some clear benefits. My main concern was that it was kind of hard to setup and it limited the rear pulley choices because of the belt clearance on the OTA. The Active alu quality was also pretty poor and it felt kind of nerdy. :lol:

So my conclusion is, it works, if you want it, it´s worth it, but you definitely don´t need it on the OTA.

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Re: Active Rear Link Suspension Kit, any good?

Postby ridinvintage » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:06 pm

I installed it on my TA05 GRT and it's the bees knees, I had to increase my CS ratio because it mellowed out the handling so much. With this kit I can throw my car into some nasty 70-80 degree manjis and recover no problem. Long sweepers are so easy to control and switchbacks are also improved.


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